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View Poll Results: For those that feel the need to petition for everything.
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Yes, remove Loot Scaling. (Or /signed)
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566 |
68.19% |
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No, it's fine as it is. (Or /notsigned)
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106 |
12.77% |
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I have a slightly different view that I have expressed below in an elaborate manner.
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8 |
0.96% |
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Cake is ****ing delicious.
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150 |
18.07% |
Mar 26, 2008, 01:35 AM // 01:35
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#821
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Dec 2005
Guild: CULT
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
No, I care not a jot about people who earn 100 times what I do, you are mistaken there. I care about how much fun I have as I play the game in the way I like to play. Given that I have completed every quest, mission, dungeon, storyline multiple times, that wasy does not include "playing the game normally" any more. I also care about the fact that a hell of a lot of people I used to play with have quit the game for good because of this nerf.
When they added the loot nerf,t hey sucked a hell of a lot of fun and replay value out of the game. THAT is why I hate it, it was counter productive, it worsened the whole game, its bad desigh, intentionally nerfing a very popular form of gameplay. And for what? Some whacked out notion of what is a good economy? lol, how obsurd can you get?
They changed the economy for sure, but is it any better? Is it any worse? Of course it isn't, its just different, so what was the point? To make players more casual and reduce the load (ie costs) on the servers?
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never mind the hordes of people that left the game because they couldnt afford ANYTHING unless they went and repeatedly farmed the same spot over and over and over again.
you know...the people who just want to play the game not a tiny section of the map.
So a bunch of people left the game in search of some grindtastic El'dorado ? Good for them, normal players now can at least afford runes and *gasp* the occasional rare skinned item via trading whereas before that would have required 100K + XX ecto.
100K used to be PEANUTS. Now it can last a careful spender...months.
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Mar 26, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41
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#822
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2006
Profession: R/
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
never mind the hordes of people that left the game because they couldnt afford ANYTHING unless they went and repeatedly farmed the same spot over and over and over again.
you know...the people who just want to play the game not a tiny section of the map.
So a bunch of people left the game in search of some grindtastic El'dorado ? Good for them, normal players now can at least afford runes and *gasp* the occasional rare skinned item via trading whereas before that would have required 100K + XX ecto.
100K used to be PEANUTS. Now it can last a careful spender...months.
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Well, I have never heard of anyone leaving the game because they couldn't make money, so I think you are just making that up. Certainly none of the many I know who have quit left for that reason.
But nice try inventing a problem that never existed, not going to add much to the debate I am afraid though.
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Mar 26, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42
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#823
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La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo
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This thread has just been cleaned. I have also added a poll, for those of you who wish to treat it simply as a petition, and not as a proper discussion. Enjoy. 
__________________
Stay Breezy
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Mar 26, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52
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#824
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Dec 2005
Guild: CULT
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
Well, I have never heard of anyone leaving the game because they couldn't make money, so I think you are just making that up. Certainly none of the many I know who have quit left for that reason.
But nice try inventing a problem that never existed, not going to add much to the debate I am afraid though.
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i just told you, whats more Anet thought it was a problem, I personally thought it was a problem, people i talked to about it thought it was a problem and there are people here who continue saying it was a problem.
just because the glass is empty it dos not mean there was never any water in it before.
please, carry on.
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Mar 26, 2008, 03:23 AM // 03:23
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#825
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: In Baltar's head
Guild: Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]
Profession: Mo/
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My income pre-LS nerf was very comfortable, the game felt free flowing, it was fun to go farm but I wasnt hard core about it at all. More people had more to spend, it was easier to get armor sets and skills, it was easier to sell things. The game felt more vigorous.
It now feels like we are in a recession. Yeah, you can earn money still, but it involves more farming, or more replaying the same missions over and over. More time. People generally have less to spend, its far harder to sell most things outside of rare skins, select perfect things, tomes, certain minipets. The game and its economy feels much more sluggish.
Is it just loot scaling's fault? Maybe not exclusively. Certainly has some to do with inscriptions as well, but I think a large part of the problem is indeed loot scaling.
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Mar 26, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30
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#826
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are we there yet?
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in a land far far away
Guild: guild? I am supposed to have a guild?
Profession: Rt/
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gak cant find if I posted in the fast growing thread..
signed!!
I dont farm, so when I h/h I have to share with the heroes and henchies---when loot scaling was introduced I had to let anet take their share too!!! just WRONG....its bad enough that the drops suuck, and then to have them reduced even more is just  .
GET RID OF THE LOOT SCALING!!!
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Mar 26, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45
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#827
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Dec 2007
Profession: W/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
You should take that little theory of yours up with Gaile
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No need, her quote explains it entirely, "players who enjoy solo farming".
It does not say, "players who enjoyed solo farming pre-LS" or "players who expect to make enough gold just farming to buy whatever they want AND make even more bags of cash selling good drops".
The game allows you to solo farm all you want, all day long, and it won't do a single thing to affect your drops like occured pre-LS. There isn't a single thing they've done or are doing to harm the fun of solo farming in and of itself. *You* simply don't find it rewarding with gold and white item drops limited.
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Mar 26, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55
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#828
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Academy Page
Join Date: Sep 2007
Guild: Pigs Go [Oink]
Profession: W/R
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
-some random quote from Gaile-
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Enjoy does not mean dominate.
Taking quotes out of context FTL.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cosyfiep
-utter nonsense-
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Dude, do you even know wtf you're spouting?
Read it up, get a support group or a shrink.
Last edited by Default Name; Mar 26, 2008 at 04:58 AM // 04:58..
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Mar 26, 2008, 05:09 AM // 05:09
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#829
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Emo Goth Italics
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Faer
This thread has just been cleaned. I have also added a poll, for those of you who wish to treat it simply as a petition, and not as a proper discussion. Enjoy.
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Off-topic, Faer but..."I Like Cake"?
Very off-topicky for you....but I vvoted that anyway...
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Mar 26, 2008, 05:35 AM // 05:35
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#830
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Lion's Arch Merchant
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Off-topic, Faer but..."I Like Cake"?
Very off-topicky for you....but I vvoted that anyway... |
It's not about whether or not you like cake, its about how it it objectively, and as a matter of absolute fact, delicious in ways that resemble a red engine.
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Mar 26, 2008, 07:47 AM // 07:47
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#831
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2007
Guild: Army of Darkness
Profession: A/Mo
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cosyfiep
gak cant find if I posted in the fast growing thread..
signed!!
I dont farm, so when I h/h I have to share with the heroes and henchies---when loot scaling was introduced I had to let anet take their share too!!! just WRONG....its bad enough that the drops suuck, and then to have them reduced even more is just .
GET RID OF THE LOOT SCALING!!! |
LS doesn't not effect Full Parties, it's called Loot scaling for a reason, and even with a Real pug party your loot is still same as H/H.
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Mar 26, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22
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#832
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: www.mybearfriend.net
Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF]
Profession: E/
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After thinking it over some more, I've come to the conclusion that LS still does overall more good than harm. However, and this is a very big however, it is just one half of the solution and only pushes problems around without really accessing them. Here are some measures that would help the issue (any combination of them would work):
- Devalue the currency by raising the monetary value of all drops by x% to compensate for the disparity in the accessibility of pre- and post-LS fixed price items. Everybody wins except NPCs but they won't QQ.
- Make identical weapon mods stackable. Currently I need 10+ mules just to hold the stock, and my entire Xunlai storage is full of merchandise, one of each item that is on offer (page 1 inscriptions, page 2 tomes, page 3 caster mods, page 4 martial arts mods). Every time I sell something I have to fetch a replacement from a mule, and I still keep trashing perfect mods because I can't bother buying any more character slots and all the existing ones are full
- Finally implement the auction house!
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Mar 26, 2008, 08:29 AM // 08:29
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#833
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Guild: No Inherent Effect [NiE]
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by underverse_ninja
LS doesn't not effect Full Parties, it's called Loot scaling for a reason, and even with a Real pug party your loot is still same as H/H.
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IDS however goes beyond parties and kills everybodies loot 
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Mar 26, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31
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#834
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2007
Guild: UNCONTROLLABLE RAGE [moko]
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I can't decide if I want to vote cake or yes ><
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Mar 26, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21
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#835
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2006
Profession: R/
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
i just told you, whats more Anet thought it was a problem, I personally thought it was a problem, people i talked to about it thought it was a problem and there are people here who continue saying it was a problem.
just because the glass is empty it dos not mean there was never any water in it before.
please, carry on.
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Rubbish, total and utter rubbish. Given the length of time this problem has been debated nobody has ever quoted mass player decline as the reason, not by ANet or anyone, that is just total rubbish and you know it. You made up a stupid reason with no evidence.
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Originally Posted by Default Name
Enjoy does not mean dominate.
Taking quotes out of context FTL.
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Some context for you:
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...70&postcount=1
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Mar 26, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30
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#836
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Profession: Mo/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
That must explain how I got all of it I ever wanted before I had enough money to just buy stuff and save time...
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You are just proving to be selfish here. 'Because I got my stuff, everyone else can!1!!1!1'. Some people don't have enough cash to buy what they need. The game doesn't drop the same for everyone and not everyone has the same amount of cash. In your situation you are unharmed by the LS. Saying you want to keep it is selfish and ignorant.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
Lie, plain and simple. The few builds and associated areas that *need* runes are late, late game. Everything else works with or without runes. Besides, the most expensive rune in the game is a superior vigor and is hardly necessary (I've purchased a whole one) for anything except elite builds for elite areas and that is not at issue here. If you are regularly and reliably hitting up elite areas, money is not your problem.
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Please, stop claiming ignorant stuff without proof. 'Ur a lyier! I got my 400K in 2 dais so evry1 cahn get that!~!1'. You don't have a clue how I play the game, and as long as you don't know that, you should stop telling me how this game works.
I don't use cookie-cutter builds and I never search for builds on Wiki etc. I make my own build and I experiment with skills. I'm 'playing the game' instead of 'cheating my way to a 1337-skillbar', in your language. My builds work how I see fit, and you have nothing to say in that matter.
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Originally Posted by CHannum
More crying, more lying. You can probably beat the game with a lot less, but that's not even what I said: I said you could beat all four campaigns with less than 50K spent per character. If you can't come up with flexible enough builds that the nearly 50 skills per character that this would net you to get by, you're not trying.
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Same as above. And sure, I COULD beat the campaigns with less than 50K. Sure, I could even buy a run to drok, then Thunderhead Keep, and then let others do the last few missions for me. No thanks, I'd rather be playing the game as it should be played. Remember, this is a game, and the primairy thing that a game should have is enjoyment. As matters are now, only the rich can truely enjoy the game. One that only played the storyline can't claim he enjoys the game because the storyline is FAR from everything.
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Originally Posted by CHannum
Regardless, whether you can get by on a cheapskate strategem isn't the issue, it's if you actually can't get by comfortably with the amount of money you get normally under LS. I know I've certainly beat all four campaigns without ever once needing to go get more money for skills. Heck, the last time I needed to wait on buying a skill for a reason other than I just didn't have a character with access to that location yet was about a month into playing Prophecies.
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yes but that's you. The moment you compare your situation with EVERYONE else is the moment your argument is invalid. Skills are expensive, there's no denying that. The reason why Skill Tomes were added, was because too many people were having problems with buying skills. Of course, stuff like Tomes aren't very effective in a market with a disfunctional trading system.
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Originally Posted by CHannum
That would be more lying, more crying, and apparently even dumbass "strategy". I've never bought a single thing from another player other than a mini, you don't need to. Between collectors, BMP, weaponsmiths, and drops, you can get through the game without needing any kind of mad money.
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Again, don't compare your personal experience with the rest. I DO need to buy stuff from other players. Collectors are useless because the chance is low I get 5 of the same collectible items with the Lootscaling in play. It takes me way too long to farm collectible items, too. BMP... Don't have that. You're telling me that only players who have the BMP have the rights on free equipment? Weaponsmiths are just too expensive, I already explained that. And drops... I've never seen a max-damage white drop in Normal Mode before. Same goes with blues. Purples and Golds are max damage, but they barely drop. (Oh, and even purples are non-max damage in large parts of the game).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
Sigh, you're like arguing with 3 y.o.
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Let me remind you that you are the one calling others people's words 'lies and crying' without knowing their situation or without any proof. You're just comparing your 1337-situation with other's situations. And don't forget that the existance of the LS doesn't harm you in any way. If it's removed it won't harm your playstyle in a negative way. The only reason I can think of why you would want to keep it is for your e-peen, and to stand out above others.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
If you've unlocked all 25 heros for a character, that character played completely through at least NF and EOTN with more than enough decent drops to get by on without ever touching a weaponsmith unless you want. Never mind that 10 of those 25 heros come with max (if not optimal) gear and the BMP for $10 provides an unlimited suppy of perfect gold req 9 max weapons of your choice AND pays you 500G for the "trouble" of getting each one. Yes, fully kitting out those heros with runes will cost you money, but you do at as you play and need that extra oomph, not all at once which is what you want to pretend.
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I find it hard to believe that you get more than 1000K from just playing EotN and NF. There are no decent drops in Normal Mode except for keys and materials. Wether their gear is optimal or not depends on the builds they have. YOU are not the one to decide if MY heroes are equipped in a good way or not. BMP is out of the question for reasons that are none of your business. The point is that the BMP is just that, a BONUS Mission Pack. It's not like it should be NEEDED to play the game. The point is that I have trouble even equipping my FIRST few heroes, not all 25 per character. And in this game, it's impossible to go without planning your cash, cause else you will get in trouble later and you'll have NO way to farm for cash.
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Originally Posted by CHannum
The big issue for you is one of no perspective. You *expect* to have the *best* for as little effort as possible, aka greed and laziness. You don't need the best to play the game, you need good enough. If you have to wait the 1 hour it might take you to earn enough buy another skill playing normally, I think you'll live.
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So playing the game, getting nice drops and buying everything you want is not called lazy and greedy, but working a bit for it, is? Let me tell you that I'd GLADLY work for cash. It's just impossible with the current game. Max damage weapons are not the best in this game. Torment Weapons and FoW armour are. Max Damage Weaponsmith weapons are just the base equipment that anyone should be able to buy. And who is to decide what or what not is good enough? If I play this game, I want to do it at least with maxed out characters. I don't want to skip stuff for being to hard, just because I did a half-ass job on equipping my heroes properly.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
Or maybe we're playing two different games. I'm playing a game that didn't hand me 25 heros and a naked character and threaten to kill my dog if I didn't beat DOA by the end of the next weekend while unlocking everything and having perfectly modded equipment on everybody, you?
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I am playing a game that was said to be good for Casual players. When I bought this game, it was said to be different to WoW in the sense that players can get their max damage weapons and armour WITHOUT having to grind for it. This was, indeed, the case. Until Loot Scaling and the chest-locks came, that is. Anyway, as long as the removal of the Loot Scaling doesn't harm you, I see you as just another whining hardcore farmer that doesn't want others to get nice stuff.
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Mar 26, 2008, 10:36 AM // 10:36
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#837
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Frost Gate Guardian
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cosyfiep
gak cant find if I posted in the fast growing thread..
signed!!
I dont farm, so when I h/h I have to share with the heroes and henchies---when loot scaling was introduced I had to let anet take their share too!!! just WRONG....its bad enough that the drops suuck, and then to have them reduced even more is just .
GET RID OF THE LOOT SCALING!!! |
It's posts like these that make me wonder if people even have all their facts straight before screaming for LS to be removed. As others have pointed out, if you're in a full group, LS doesnt affect you!
Then there are those who don't know what inflation is and claim that inflation doesnt exist and never existed.
I hope ANET reads the actual posts instead of just looking at the poll because it's clear that the bulk of the anti-LS crowd don't know what they're talking about.
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Mar 26, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46
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#838
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Guild: No Inherent Effect [NiE]
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Creeping Carl
It's posts like these that make me wonder if people even have all their facts straight before screaming for LS to be removed. As others have pointed out, if you're in a full group, LS doesnt affect you!
Then there are those who don't know what inflation is and claim that inflation doesnt exist and never existed.
I hope ANET reads the actual posts instead of just looking at the poll because it's clear that the bulk of the anti-LS crowd don't know what they're talking about.
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
Did you ever do a 8/8 team with all players, then looked and checked if every single foe dropped something?
It does not happen. Why? Because of the IDS ls bug. This is my personal experience. If it ain't so prove me wrong.
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Mar 26, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00
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#839
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So Serious...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London
Guild: Nerfs Are [WHAK]
Profession: E/
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
You are just proving to be selfish here. 'Because I got my stuff, everyone else can!1!!1!1'. Some people don't have enough cash to buy what they need. The game doesn't drop the same for everyone and not everyone has the same amount of cash. In your situation you are unharmed by the LS. Saying you want to keep it is selfish and ignorant.
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This is not what he said. Re-read his posts, like many others, before you jump to the wrong conclusions. I think that it's enough for not having to reply to the rest of your post.
As I said before, it's really not difficult to get enough money for the stuff we need, and even enough for a 15k armor which is only different from the normal one in appearance. I'm IMHO an average player, not particularly gifted but fair enough to have finished the 4 games with ample money for me and my heroes (btw you rarely need the 25 of them!).
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Mar 26, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00
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#840
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Sep 2005
Profession: Me/P
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
You are just proving to be selfish here. 'Because I got my stuff, everyone else can!1!!1!1'. Some people don't have enough cash to buy what they need. The game doesn't drop the same for everyone and not everyone has the same amount of cash. In your situation you are unharmed by the LS. Saying you want to keep it is selfish and ignorant.
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Isn't that just an issue of loot allocation?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
Please, stop claiming ignorant stuff without proof. 'Ur a lyier! I got my 400K in 2 dais so evry1 cahn get that!~!1'. You don't have a clue how I play the game, and as long as you don't know that, you should stop telling me how this game works.
I don't use cookie-cutter builds and I never search for builds on Wiki etc. I make my own build and I experiment with skills. I'm 'playing the game' instead of 'cheating my way to a 1337-skillbar', in your language. My builds work how I see fit, and you have nothing to say in that matter.
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http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...mned_600/Smite
Temple runs, as a Monk who offers these runs, you can make 20k per hour. Let's say if you play 10 hours a day for two days. That's 400k right there.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
Again, don't compare your personal experience with the rest. I DO need to buy stuff from other players. Collectors are useless because the chance is low I get 5 of the same collectible items with the Lootscaling in play. It takes me way too long to farm collectible items, too. BMP... Don't have that. You're telling me that only players who have the BMP have the rights on free equipment? Weaponsmiths are just too expensive, I already explained that. And drops... I've never seen a max-damage white drop in Normal Mode before. Same goes with blues. Purples and Golds are max damage, but they barely drop. (Oh, and even purples are non-max damage in large parts of the game).
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Ever heard of green weapons?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
Let me remind you that you are the one calling others people's words 'lies and crying' without knowing their situation or without any proof. You're just comparing your 1337-situation with other's situations. And don't forget that the existance of the LS doesn't harm you in any way. If it's removed it won't harm your playstyle in a negative way. The only reason I can think of why you would want to keep it is for your e-peen, and to stand out above others.
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Aren't you debating this for the same purpose?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
I find it hard to believe that you get more than 1000K from just playing EotN and NF. There are no decent drops in Normal Mode except for keys and materials. Wether their gear is optimal or not depends on the builds they have. YOU are not the one to decide if MY heroes are equipped in a good way or not. BMP is out of the question for reasons that are none of your business. The point is that the BMP is just that, a BONUS Mission Pack. It's not like it should be NEEDED to play the game. The point is that I have trouble even equipping my FIRST few heroes, not all 25 per character. And in this game, it's impossible to go without planning your cash, cause else you will get in trouble later and you'll have NO way to farm for cash.
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Just how much money does it cost to equip your heroes?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
So playing the game, getting nice drops and buying everything you want is not called lazy and greedy, but working a bit for it, is? Let me tell you that I'd GLADLY work for cash. It's just impossible with the current game. Max damage weapons are not the best in this game. Torment Weapons and FoW armour are. Max Damage Weaponsmith weapons are just the base equipment that anyone should be able to buy. And who is to decide what or what not is good enough? If I play this game, I want to do it at least with maxed out characters. I don't want to skip stuff for being to hard, just because I did a half-ass job on equipping my heroes properly.
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Just a note, Torment Weapons are outdated.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
I am playing a game that was said to be good for Casual players. When I bought this game, it was said to be different to WoW in the sense that players can get their max damage weapons and armour WITHOUT having to grind for it. This was, indeed, the case. Until Loot Scaling and the chest-locks came, that is. Anyway, as long as the removal of the Loot Scaling doesn't harm you, I see you as just another whining hardcore farmer that doesn't want others to get nice stuff.
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You still don't need to grind for maximum status weapons and armors. FoW armors and Torment Weapons do not give you additional attack or armor bonuses.
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